Interview with Scott Simon

Interview with Scott Simon

This is a transcript of an interview with Scott Simon on Conversations at KCTS 9 which aired on July 10, 2009.

EC: Scott Simon, welcome to Conversations.

SS: Thank you.

EC: Good to have you here. I have to admit, I’m a fan. I wake up Saturday mornings to your voice.

SS: Shame you have to admit like we’re at alcoholics anonymous or something like that.

EC: Yes, My name is Enrique Cerna and I’m a Scott Simon listener. Yeah, I do, Saturday mornings I listen to you. Wakes me up bright and early. And I must admit that I really enjoy what you do.

SS: Thank you, thank you.

EC: And I guess I’m curious. Tell me what it takes to do that broadcast. What is it a couple of hours every Saturday.

SS: Well, a lot of people think that you only work on Saturday. We actually work all week to put that together. We try to do the news interviews live but typically interviews with authors, musicians, directors, artists, they tend to be tend taped in advance, so tape, we do tape anymore, we tend to be recorded in advance so that we could add music and add elements and then of course we do on the scene reporting. You know what it takes. I have found the key is not to pretend that I really know what the key is over the years is to just stay interested. And you know what it’s like in this business, and by that I mean the news business and broadcasting is you, after two or three years you begin to think, oh I’ve done this, or I’ve done something like this before. Oh I’ve interviewed him or her before, or I’ve interviewed someone like him or her before. And you have to remind yourself that there is nobody like him or her, everybody, every story is unique and you have to find a new interest in everything you do, otherwise you get threaded into the ground. I think that’s what’s important.

EC: But it’s a big mix to the show, the fact that you have…

SS: And that’s really important too. I mean I will never forget, one week of my life a number of years ago, I began the week reporting on the war on Kosovo and the aftermath of Proscenia and at the end of that week I was swimming with Esther Williams in her pool in Beverly Hill. And it was all a typical work week for me. And I treasured that because I would tell you that doing one increases your interest for the other.

SS: I think it’s - if you let somebody know that you’re interested in what they have to say, they’ll be a little more eager to kind of volunteer it. But you know what it, and I’m sure it’s true with you, which is very gratifying in an interview, because so much of this can be done on autopilot. You know, you interview a public official, you interview an expert, chances are they’ve been interviewed about that before and you kind of know what you’re going to ask and they kind of know what they’re going to answer. And I don’t mean to say that that’s not perfectly respectable, because it is. That’s the way we communicate. But what can really be gratifying to us, and I think sometimes the audience is that if you get the sense that somebody is in the middle of discovering themselves or something else in the middle of saying it to you.

EC: Talk about radio. The fact that this has been the medium that has worked for you pretty darn well.

SS: I can’t complain. I can’t complain. No, and I do a lot of stuff in public television and in fact this station has sometimes been the producing station.

EC: Yes, in fact you’ve worked with an independent producer that we house here. A guy named John Degraff.

SS: He’s a great producer.

EC: You’ve done some interesting documentaries on running out of time.

SS: Afluenza.

EC: Afluenza.

SS: Afluenza’s the one. And some other stuff I’ve done. And I do some interesting stuff for BBC TV. And I like that, and of course I write novels. And I like that. So I have never felt that I’ve been limited to one form of expression. That being said radio, or audio as we have to call it now days, is a very good one. And I think that I’ve been able to do things there that just can’t be done in the same way in other media. I think that you can have a quality of talking to people in audio, in radio. I think you can have a quality of inhabiting somebody’s mind, the baseboard of their mind at any rate, not taking it over in that sense, but just inhabiting it.

I think using audio, you can invite people to take a trip with you. Whereas often, as you can in print for that matter, but radio also has the virtue of immediacy and of course the sound of the voice and sound of other voice, or sounds rather of other voices. And sometimes, in television stuff is on the surface. It can be absolutely searing or enrapturing, but it tends to sometimes to reduce people to spectators. Whereas I think that can sometimes be, when your really engaged, a little harder to do in audio.

EC: Well let’s talk about the print pieces because you’ve written books. And your latest book, I guess it’s been out about a year now, but Windy City, talking about politics, really focusing on Chicago style politics. It’s a bit of a fiction, but maybe not so much fiction because it’s based on what you know of Chicago politics.

SS: Yeah, it’s fiction. I don’t call it a satire. Very pointedly I call it a comedy. Because as I’ve said satire implies to exaggeration and when it comes to Chicago style politics I don’t think any exaggeration is necessary. You know, funny, it was on the best selling list in the summer and began to fall off. And then began to fall of and as these things will happen, as more books come out, who should return to the ranks but governor Blagojevich. And you know when that begins to level out a bit, then there’s all the interest in senator Burist. And that’s brings the Amazon ramping back up too.

EC: And how about the President? President Obama, did that help?

SS: Well I think that was always the game. Yes, absolutely. And we have a Chicago politician in the white house. And I must say that there are some people who don’t like to hear that. They have I think a rather more romantic view of President Obama. I have a romantic view of him too, but it’s as a Chicagoan. And if you take a look at his campaign, you begin to understand that he ran really a very Chicago style political campaign. They understood early on that you could win more votes in the caucuses then you could in the primaries. I mean, no, he really only won one major state primary after all, which was his own, Illinois, but California and New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Ohio, I mean you could go on, they were all won by senator Clinton. But in the end, I think the Obama campaign understood that you could win more votes in the primaries.

Now they didn’t know at that particular point that they’d have all the money in the world to work with so there just seemed to be a financially sound strategy on top of everything else. And I think, you know, they know how to keep score. Chicago politicians do. And I, this by the way increases my admiration for him. It doesn’t diminish him. It means that when the day comes and he has to sit down with a North Korean leader, or an Iranian leader or Vladamir Putin, this is not some airy academic who is sitting down, but I think a very seasoned and sagacious Chicago politician. And in fact, if you look at his background particularly in Chicago politics, as he became a state Senator, he played hard ball. He did play hard ball and you know, he’s never been an informer. He’s always been very close to the Daily brothers. He in fact agreed to run for a congressional seat against the man who’d run against Mary Daily in the Democratic primaries, Bobby Rush, and it turned out to be a very vicious racist campaign in which...

EC: And two black men..

SS: Between yes, two African American men. But of course it was congressman Rush who at that point said, this man is not really from our community. This man doesn’t know what it’s like to grow up the way we have on the south side of Chicago. I mean, I think it was border-line a very ugly campaign. Although I gather the two of them have made up at this point. But President Obama has always been comfortable with that relationship with the Chicago Democratic organization what some people would call the machine. I think organization probably is a little more accurate now. Or as one of my characters in Windy City says, if this was a machine, I wish somebody would show me where the hell the plug is. And it doesn’t quite run the way it used to. I mean the federal government has seen to that with so many prosecutions and everything.

But on the other hand, I don’t ignore the fact as far as big city governments go, Chicago is often considered to be the model of efficient administration. And I think when you talk about a community as diverse as Chicago is, a community that enjoys politics as much as Chicago does because it really is the local theater. I think, I think, look I think, anyone who wants to be President could benefit from knowing how to be a successful politician in Chicago because a lot of the lessons you learn there in terms of making practical decisions, putting a coalition together, being able to speak with and work with people from all across the spectrum, of all different backgrounds, I think Chicago is just about unmatchable in that way.

EC: You know, what is it about Chicago that produces such interesting political characters? I mean from mayor Richard Jay Daily, his son now, president Obama, you know, Rolan Burrist, to Blagojevich, even before that, a governor that was, wasn’t he indicted too?

SS: Well, I mean, fill in the blank.

EC: Or, how many have been indicted?

SS: Well, four have been indicted. Well, which is funny is Governor Ryan, the incumbent governor is now in prison, Governor Walker, the Democratic reformer before him, I think just got out of prison a couple of years ago. I mean, this is quite the interesting cavil gate.

EC: And it sounds like Louisiana politics to an extent.

SS: I think they’re neck and neck. Somebody’s actually been thoughtful enough to try and put together some sort of bar graph to show how many politicians between Illinois and Louisiana per capita get indicted. And I believe that Louisiana is slightly ahead and as a Chicagoan, I’m slightly distressed. But there’s time to catch up, let’s put it that way. It’s not the ninth inning, I think it’s just the seventh.

EC: And speaking of the Cubs or White Sox for you, since you’re talking about the ninth innings.

SS: I’m a Cubs fan but our 5 year old daughter, almost six, is a White Sox fan. So I have, because the White Sox won the World Series, the first World Series that she can really remember, so I have increasingly over the past few years, she’s my daughter, so I’ve been joining her with the. And it was getting to where, when I’m able to bring her to school on a Monday, she often wears he pink White Sox prices cap, and I think it was a Monday and I was going to the gym and wearing a Cubs hat and she said, papa, how come you don’t wear a Sox cap, go Sox, go Sox. So of course and this is my daughter. I immediately went out and got a couple of different Sox caps and so that’s what I wear now…

EC: You got married late in life.

SS: I did, yeah.

EC: And in fact you met your life when she came to NPR under Sam. Was she a documentarian?

SS: She was. She was part of Gabrian Films, a group of people making documentary films, very good ones. I think the one that was nominated for an Academy Award a few years ago is called the farms which is set in the Anglo Estate Prison Farm.

EC: And she’s French?

SS: She’s French, yes.

EC: OK, so you were 48?

SS: 48, yeah.

EC: I understand that this was a whirlwind and that...

SS: We met when she came by to do a series of interviews and gave me a series of DVD's of some of their films, some of their productions and I don’t mind telling you, but I’d never seen a more breathtakingly beautiful woman in my life and of course she had this, forgive me, cute little accent. And seemed to have a wonderful sense of humor and it was a little a few weeks later in New York that a mutual friend gave, we were both there and that was on a Sunday and we were married the following Sunday.

EC: Whoa. And you up to that point looked like you were going to be a bachelor the rest of your life.

SS: Well, it was getting to be that point where people were saying well, I guess he’ll never meet someone or you know, I guess it just doesn’t happen for some people, but once it happened, it happened pretty quickly.

EC: And I understand that you’d gone to the party to meet with her? Or you knew she was going to be there or had plans to see her.

SS: My college friend, Jackie Lyden, was giving a party for me for the publication of my book called Home and Away and she asked me for a list of people that I wanted to be invited and I had just met Caroline and so I asked well, why don’t you invite her. And in the event so..

EC: As I understand as you got out of the cab to get to get to the place there.

SS: Oh I’m sorry I forgot this part.

EC: The head wound, remember the head wound.

SS: So I got out of the cab in Brooklyn, and I hit my head on, not knowing by the way if she’d be there at the party, and I hit my head on the cab, on the roof. And it really sprung a leak. I mean it was as if, you know a superficial head wound, particularly when I’m involved it’s superficial, but I mean, it was really very bloody. And I walked in there and I had my pocket handkerchief that was just. You can maybe even still see a dent. I had my pocket handkerchief sprung there and Caroline was there. And we began to chat and I, it was like really bleeding which could not have been an attractive presentation, I’m sure when somebody’s talking to you like that. But I literally did not want to leave her side. I didn’t want to give up the advantage I had of talking to her that particular point. I didn’t want her to begin to talk to someone else, I didn’t want, I mean, this sounds ridiculous but I literally didn’t leave her side. I just kept the handkerchief there.

EC: This makes for a hell of a story Scott.

SS: And I remember because this is coming back to me know, I had to occasionally lean against the arm of the sofa because my arm was getting tired holding it up like that, but I didn’t want to leave her side.

EC: So the two of you have two little girls?

SS: Yeah, we have two daughters.

EC: And they’re adopted from China?

SS: Yes.

EC: And I understand having those daughters are also your next writings. Are you working on a book now?

SS: Yeah, I am. I’ve begun work on also the next novel, which I won’t talk about superstitiously so much, it’s set in Germany during World War II, and in fact it involves radio. Germans state broadcasting at that time, but just leaving that there, I agreed to do a short book for Random House on adoption. Which will certainly reflect our personal story, having adopted two little girls from China. But I will also tell a few stories and talk about some other people we know who have adopted children or have been adopted themselves have learned about it and it’s funny that once you adopt, you begin, you meet all kinds of people, that even if they were friends of yours, didn’t necessarily know that they were adopted.

Steve Levit, the man who wrote Freakenomics, is the father of two little girls who were adopted from China. Jeff Seller is a friend of ours who is the producer of this new revival of the West Side Story which is about to debut on Broadway and produced Rent is himself adopted and now he and his partner have adopted. I was just before I came to Seattle, I was in Portland and you might know the group Pink Martini.

EC: Oh yeah.

SS: Tom Lauderdale, the I think is a real musical genius who is a head of the group Pink Martini, is adopted. Both he and his brothers and sisters are adopted. And so you know, what I’ve learned from them and their stories will at least be a little bit reflected in there too.

EC: The books that you write, the novels, seem to be really based on your own personal experiences as well.

SS: Yeah so far, I think in the novels it’s important, and I hope it’s apparent in all of the novels, I have never put a reporter in any of my novels. And I don’t want to say I’ll never do that, because I don’t know that, but it’s almost unprincipled. And the first principal is that when I write novels, I don’t want to make these thinly disguised romantic ?clefs? about people, or I don’t want people to even think that’s what they are, but the second thing is I know and we know as reporters know that no matter how good or intimate an interview is, or an encounter between someone you’re interviewing and a reporter, at some point they’re their own person. You know, a door gets shut and you can only get so far into that story. And I think that if you’re going to write a novel, it should be from the viewpoint from the people who are actually involved in the stories, so that’s where the imagination actually takes over and I think that’s important to novels. But I think it’s true and my wife has talked about this, I don’t write books about things that are unimportant to me.

Pretty Birds, my novel about the Seaship Sarajevo, two teen-aged girls and that was the most important news story I’ve ever covered. Windy City, for anyone familiar with me, knows that my affectionate longest lasting love affair of my life is between me and Chicago. And certainly, adoption. Because really, my wife and I really, I don’t want to say we’re adoption advocates cause that’s not exactly what I mean. I don’t think anybody should in a sense be scolded into adopting a child because I think it’s something good to do. But my wife and I have grown to believe that we wish people would consider adoption not just as a second or final option, but as a first option. Because I think there are few things that you could do that would be better for your life and better for the world than adopting a child who needs a home.

EC: Talking about family, your father was a comedian.

SS: Yes.

EC: Is that where the sense of timing came from? You seem to have a very good sense of timing and pacing and delivering.

SS: I guess you know, something may have rubbed off. But as I think you can probably understand, in my household, my father the comedian, was not the funny one. It was my mother who was the...

EC: Really?

SS: Well, you know, comedians don’t give it away for free. And by the time they come home, tired of making people laugh, tired of thinking.

EC: The last thing they want to do is...

SS: Exactly and you know comedians have a tragic aspect. They see the tragic side of life. And it was my mother who was the bubbly and effervescent one. I mean, my mother has exquisite comedic timing. And of course, she delivered what my father always felt was the single best line ever delivered by anyone our family. Which is when someone said to her once, Mrs. Simon, what’s it like to be married to the funniest man in Chicago and she said, I wouldn’t know. And so I mean, I think of my mother in that regard too.

EC: But you lost your father and your mother remarried and I understand that you came very close to your stepfather.

SS: I did, well, he was married to my mother for 26 years. And we did become very close and I think something that has been firmed up in my mind by the way since adopting two little girls and talking, my literary agent at Victor in London, another thing I discovered, turns out to be the father of an adopted boy. He and his wife adopted a little boy from a Navaho reservation, living in London as they do. And he said to me once, you know Scott, you can, I’m very close to, the wonderful thing about adoption is you don’t feel so implicated in what they are so your sense of perspective is a little bit better, you’re not blaming your genes.

And I think with my stepfather, who did have two daughters in the traditional manner. And he does have a name, Ralph Neumann. Ralph Neumann, he was a Lincoln scholar, well known man. And I think Ralph and I became particularly close because in a sense he didn’t feel responsible for what I was and we didn’t feel implicated in each other that way. I mean a lot of the father son stuff was out of the way. It just didn’t apply where we were, the two of us were concerned, so I think we could be natural with each other and became very devoted friends. And I think I noticed this particularly in the last few years of his life when his health was failing and worries about, you know he had on the Abraham workshop in Chicago. I think he opened up to me the way he didn’t, I know he didn’t with my mother and some other people in the family. And I’ll always be very grateful for that.

EC: You know the state of journalism today is not so good kind of like the economy. Here in Seattle we’ve seen the demise of the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

SS: They call it just moving online right?

EC: Yeah.

SS: A new and more dynamic form, right?

EC: Ah, not so much.

SS: Down from 200 people to 20.

EC: But I’m curious how you see the state of journalism today and particularly for young people that want this career.

SS: Boy you know, it’s funny, because not infrequently I speak at universities and there’s a part of me that when I look out at 900 students who are all journalism majors, there’s a part of me that wants to say, Where the hell do you people think you’re going to find work anyway? There’s so many things that are happening to the profession of journalism and communications generally. I wish I knew where it all was going to shake out and I don’t know where it’s going to shake out. I think several things are happening, in the form, the media are changing and beginning to resemble each other where it wasn’t there before.

The profession is also getting de-professionalized. I mean, when the bombings in Mumbai took place, you did not need for the AP and the UPI and the Reuters correspondence to get on the scene to report because people who were actually in the hotel began to send messages to Twitter and it’s becoming de-professionalized. Now I think there’s a lot of cost on that and a lot of caution we should have forward because I think people just sending out a 140 character messages is not necessarily reporting the news the way a journalist in theory, knows how to do it is. But that genie’s not going to go back into the bottle and I think we’ve got to find a way of putting some of the values of good journalism and the new technology and the new capabilities are happening. And you know, also I don’t want to be a common scold. I think we have to be excited about it otherwise we’re going to loose our capacity to communicate with people. And the fact is, there’s almost no reason for a human voice to be unheard on this planet now. That’s an extraordinary thing. We are making the means of communication open to almost everybody. Certainly within my lifetime I expect it would be more or less everybody on this planet and that’s a great thing.

EC: Is there anything else you want to do? Or are you doing everything you want to do?

SS: Well, I mean, you know, I’m doing a lot. I’d like to continue writing my novels. There is the prospect of both Pretty Birds and Windy Cities in what in Hollywood or London they call development. In film and or cable series. And I would like to see that happen because it keeps book sales up which would be a good thing. But I think given my interest in the theater, I’d like to write a play or two. I have that in mind. And have talked to directors or theater companies who are interested in receiving that.

EC: Have you done that?

SS: No, I mean, I’ve begun to draft stuff and show it to various directors who are interested And I mean I will do that. One way or another, I will do that. Cause that sort of thing actually does interest me a lot. I’d like to do that. And you know there are other things I’d like to do in Broadcasting. We’ll see where that goes. I mean I enjoy doing the show we do very much and I certainly enjoy doing the stuff I do for BBC but I think there are other things I could be interested in doing sometimes.

EC: Well from books to the radio, I hope to keep hearing you for a few years to come.

SS: Well, thank you. I think with two young children, I, as we discussed, I will be working until I’m 100.

EC: And I’ll be right here with you. Scott Simon, thank you for your time.

SS: Good to be here.